DiveIn: Diving into Special Education's Most Complex and Pressing Debates

Podcast by Federico R. Waitoller

DiveIn: Diving into Special Education's Most Complex and Pressing Debates

Join Dr. Federico Waitoller for DiveIn, the podcast that explores the most complex and pressing debates in Special Education. Sponsored by the Division of Research of the Council for Exceptional Children, this series tackles critical and timely topics, including current policy debates, instructional design, disciplinary disparities, school choice, workforce diversity, and funding disparities. DiveIn does not shy away from tough conversations. Through thought-provoking discussions with experts and changemakers, DiveIn will challenge your current perspectives and deepen your understanding, offering actionable insights to drive equity in special education teaching, research, and policy. Tune in and be part of the movement to transform special education through an equity-driven lens. Are you ready? Let's DiveIn!

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Latest episodes

24 July 2026

The Inclusive Education Series: A conversation with Doug Fuchs

Can students with disabilities be fully included in general education classrooms? Or are there times when separate, specialized instruction is not only appropriate but necessary?

In the second episode of our Inclusive Education Series, I sit down with Doug Fuchs, one of the most influential special education researchers of the last four decades. Doug offers a perspective that challenges many of the assumptions behind today's inclusion movement.

We discuss what inclusive education actually means, why he believes the general education classroom should always be the starting point—but not always the ending point—and why he argues that some students will continue to need specialized instruction outside the general classroom.

Along the way, we tackle some of the biggest questions in the field:

• Is inclusive education supported by strong empirical evidence?

• Is the debate really about rights and belonging, or about effective instruction?

• Has special education become the problem—or is it still part of the solution?

• Can we improve general education enough to serve all learners?

• Is there common ground between advocates of full inclusion and those who support a continuum of services?

As always on DiveIn, I don't let my guests off easy. We talk about the politics of research, randomized controlled trials, Response to Intervention, Multi-Tiered Systems of Support, IDEA, and why Doug believes the disability community needs fewer internal battles and more collaboration.

Whether you agree with Doug or not, this conversation will challenge you to think more deeply about one of the most important debates in the teaching and learning of students with disabilities.

Leave us a comment in our discord channel.

Are you ready?

Let's DiveIn.

TRANSCRIPT

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57:31

06 July 2026

The Inclusive Education Series: Talking about Inclusion with David Connor

What does inclusive education actually mean? Is it a place, a practice, a political commitment—or an aspiration we may never fully achieve?

In the first episode of Season 4 and the opening conversation of DiveIn’s special series on inclusive education, Federico talks with David J. Connor, Professor Emeritus at Hunter College and the Graduate Center of the City University of New York, and one of the leading scholars in Disability Studies in Education and DisCrit.

Connor traces the roots of inclusive education beyond legislation and special education policy to the Civil Rights and Disability Rights movements. He reflects on the emergence of Disability Studies in Education, its complicated relationship with traditional special education, and why he believes disability should be understood as a form of human diversity rather than simply a deficit to be fixed.

But this is not a conversation without pushback.

Federico challenges Connor with some of the strongest arguments against full inclusion: Does inclusive education actually have a strong empirical base? Can separate schools provide meaningful disability community and collective identity? What about students with complex support needs? And should families have the right to choose specialized settings?

They also discuss whether research can ever truly be objective, why inclusive education needs a plurality of research methods, the importance of listening to disabled students and adults, and what the next frontier of inclusive education may be.

And, because this is DiveIn, they also find time to discuss the World Cup, dangerous levels of soccer-related couch attachment, and David’s suspicious refusal to choose between England, the United States, and Argentina.

Season 4 starts here.

Are you ready?

Let’s DiveIn.

00:00

47:14

17 June 2026

Trailer Season 4

This is the trailer for Season 4 of Dive in and the new series on inclusive education

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04:18

17 June 2026

An old episode to start a new series: Inclusive Education with Maya Kalyanpur

As we gear up for DiveIn's upcoming season 4 and a new series on inclusive education, we're revisiting a conversation that offers the perfect starting point: a global perspective on inclusion, disability, and educational equity.

In this episode, Federico talks with Maya Kalyanpur, professor in the Department of Teaching and Learning at the University of San Diego. Dr. Kalyanpur began her career teaching children with intellectual disabilities in India, served as an advisor on inclusive education to Cambodia's Ministry of Education, and has conducted research throughout South Asia and the United States.

Together, they explore:

What we mean when we talk about the Global South and why the term is more political than geographic
How disability and inclusion are understood differently across cultural contexts
Why educational models developed in the United States and other Western countries do not always translate well to other parts of the world
The tensions between international inclusion policies and local knowledge
Lessons from India and other countries about community, family, work, and disability
How educational systems can unintentionally create new forms of exclusion while attempting to promote inclusion
What scholars and practitioners in the United States can learn from the Global South
Why humility, collaboration, and listening to communities are essential for advancing equity in special education

Throughout the conversation, Dr. Kalyanpur challenges us to rethink some of the assumptions we take for granted about disability, schooling, independence, and inclusion. Rather than exporting solutions from the Global North, she argues for building educational systems that emerge from the cultural values, histories, and lived experiences of local communities.

As DiveIn prepares to launch its new series on inclusive education, this episode provides an important reminder: before debating how inclusion should happen, we need to ask whose perspectives are shaping our understanding of what inclusion means.

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39:54

18 May 2026

Educational Segregation in Spain (Divein Miniserie). Season Finale: Solutions and a Final Twist

In the final episode of our DiveIn miniseries on school segregation in Spain, the story reaches the Basque parliament—and takes an unexpected turn.

After organizing, gathering signatures, building alliances, and pushing educational segregation into the public debate, the grassroots initiative (ILP) finally presents its proposals to lawmakers. Their demands are bold:

publicly funded schools must truly be free,
all schools should reflect the demographics of their communities,
enrollment should be centralized to reduce segregation,
and schools receiving public funds must be held accountable for equity.

But what happens when educational reform collides with politics, language identity, and powerful institutions?

As the movement appears ready for victory, a dramatic political reversal changes everything.

Or does it?

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49:06

11 May 2026

DiveIn Miniserie Educational Segregation in Spain Ep. 3: The Causes

In this third episode of our DiveIn miniseries on school segregation in Spain, we move beyond the headlines and ask a difficult question: What actually causes school segregation in Spain and the Basque Country?

After following the grassroots movement pushing the issue into the Basque parliament, we now dive into the deeper structural forces shaping who attends which schools—and why. Through conversations with leading researchers and policy experts, this episode unpacks the complex web behind segregation: publicly funded private schools (escuelas concertadas), school choice policies, hidden fees, language politics, middle-class flight, and cultural barriers facing immigrant families.

You’ll hear how Spain’s dual school system creates powerful incentives for social sorting, but also why the story is far more complicated than simply blaming private-public partnerships. Experts challenge simplistic explanations and reveal how segregation is increasingly happening within school networks—including inside public schools themselves.

This episode also explores one of the most fascinating and politically sensitive issues in the Basque Country: language as a mechanism of segregation. Can bilingual and Euskera immersion programs unintentionally separate students along class and immigration lines? And how do schools created as symbols of cultural resistance become part of a system producing inequality?

Along the way, Federico connects these debates to the United States, comparing Spain’s segregation patterns with the long history of housing discrimination, school choice, charter schools, and white flight in the U.S.

Episode Transcript

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33:01